Missing the "Good Old Days"

[Fairfax]

Your description Torchwatch of the decline of naturist beaches in Britian mirrors the situation here in Australia. Rightly or wrongly every clothing optional beach here is now considered a "gay" beach.

However I don't think its widely recognised that the decline of the naturist lifestyle is mainly due to the invention of modern swimwear. When the naturist movement took off in popularity during the 1920's "swimwear" as it existed then wasn't really worthy of the name. Its no wonder a lot of people thought going naked the best option.

The invention of nylon in the 1950's and especially nylon elastaine in the 1970's changed everything. When people had access to minimal, form fitting garments, that didn't slow you down in the water and dried quickly afterwards the popularity of nude bathing declined.

I tried the nude bathing thing a few times in my twenties but quickly went back to briefs because I found you got much the same feeling of freedom without the social awkwardness of putting your genitals on display. The tanlines and swimwear fashions available were also more appealing to me and many other people.
The people still attending naturist beaches were as you said older couples and people for whom going naked had a stronger sexual element. Basically nudity had become sexualised again.

What frustrates me with todays situation is while women have retained the enjoyment of wearing minimal clothing in an outdoor recreational setting (a sort of "nudist lite") our modern society considers men wearing similar garments to be sexualised like nudity.

I'm not sure how this can be changed. I think part of the problem is while about 80% of women enjoy doing the "nudist lite" thing only about 20% of men would be interested. As a minority they are simply intimidated into conformity.

The only hope I have for positive change is this movement towards "gender fluidity" that's taken off in recent years. Maybe it will be recognised that men have the same legitimate desire to display their bodies as women do.
Until that happens the "good old days" won't return.

[Glenda]

As long as reduced sperm count articles due to the wearing of Speedos and other tight clothing continue to be written, the "good old days" will never return. I first recalled reading about it in the mid-1980's. The perception by women I've known is that the wearing of Speedos is less masculine (having qualities or appearance traditionally associated with men, especially strength and aggressiveness) due to it weakens their sexual reproduction capabilities.

https://www.inverse.com/article/3510...ce-sperm-count

The author of this 2017 article is a woman...Eleanor Cummins.

[Jack Lewis]

I think most guys are aware of the “tight clothes reduce your sperm-count” idea, but I’m not sure many guys are really taking that into account when choosing what to wear, be it on the beach or anywhere else. We all do lots of things in life that we know we shouldn’t – sunbathing, drinking, smoking etc. I have to say I’m a bit surprised women view a man in speedos as “less masculine” because of the sperm-count argument. Do they think that of male strippers too? Would they think they were more virile-looking if they turned up in floppy floral board-shorts? Do women look at buff strippers and say “Well he’s no good – look at his tiny trunks – obviously not much sperm there then!”

At the end of the day, another anthropological principle we can’t ignore, is that, like it or not, traditionally women are the hunted and men are the hunters. Thus a man displaying a lot of flesh is perceived as trying to seek approval from other hunters, who are more likely to be male, and therefore he must be gay. It’s ironic that we weren’t bothered by any of this back in the 70s/80s, but now that we are gender-fluid we are more sensitive to this rather than less.

[Minimalist75]

Torchwatch,
I have heard or read much of what you had in you recent post.
However, on comment is new and surprising to me.

"In mediaeval Europe if you had no money you lost your home, you sold your clothes to buy food and then were thrown out of town to wander naked and helpless on the blasted heaths outside the law"

Do you have any reference of this?

[Torchwatch]

I read it on a history website while researching the origins of the Vagrancy Act in Britain. It was still the way to expel naked vagrants from cities in the reign of Elizabeth I.
In the same way that street vendors in contemporary Arab states were required to pay bribes to the police to trade, in earlier times street beggars had to pay the city watch or face being ejected from the cities. Once a person was so destitute that that had sold their clothes and could neither feed themselves nor bribe the City Watch they were out.
The peasants were tied to the land, in order to become free they had to escape and live as an outlaw for a year and a day.
The heaths represented any land outside the towns and cities and not under cultivation or control. They were inhabited by the destitute, outlaws and thieves making it dangerous to go from city to city without an escort. Think of the region entered in the movie True Grit.

Vagrancy Act 1547: https://www.intriguing-history.com/e...nst-vagabonds/

Vagrancy Act 1824: https://www.thepavement.org.uk/stories/1029

USA Vagrancy Act 1966 : https://time.com/4199924/vagrancy-law-history/

[sebbie]

still, rather interesting. Who would pay $135 for some of these shorts is beyond me...

https://www.insidehook.com/article/m...-bathing-suits

[Minimalist75]

Originally Posted by Torchwatch

I read it on a history website while researching the origins of the Vagrancy Act in Britain. It was still the way to expel naked vagrants from cities in the reign of Elizabeth I.
In the same way that street vendors in contemporary Arab states were required to pay bribes to the police to trade, in earlier times street beggars had to pay the city watch or face being ejected from the cities. Once a person was so destitute that that had sold their clothes and could neither feed themselves nor bribe the City Watch they were out.
The peasants were tied to the land, in order to become free they had to escape and live as an outlaw for a year and a day.
The heaths represented any land outside the towns and cities and not under cultivation or control. They were inhabited by the destitute, outlaws and thieves making it dangerous to go from city to city without an escort. Think of the region entered in the movie True Grit.

Vagrancy Act 1547: https://www.intriguing-history.com/e...nst-vagabonds/

Vagrancy Act 1824: https://www.thepavement.org.uk/stories/1029

USA Vagrancy Act 1966 : https://time.com/4199924/vagrancy-law-history/

I was aware of vagrancy laws. The part that surprised me was the idea someone selling all of his clothing. I didn't see that in these references.

[TX_Micro]

Same here. I wore my first speedo in the 1980 in Florida. I was immediately hooked on the sense of freedom and sensuality of wearing next to nothing at the beach. Then thongs came along and could hardly wait to buy my first. It took a while for the local beach communities to get repressive and start banning them. I live in the country and have a pool so I am free to wear as little as I desire at home and prefer no more than a micro-suit at the beach.

[TX_Micro]

Originally Posted by Bede735

Time to start a campaign - "Male Nudity Matters". And any criticism of that will be deemed as sexist. Sorted.

I like it!

[Schoolspeedo]

Originally Posted by Fairfax

Your description Torchwatch of the decline of naturist beaches in Britian mirrors the situation here in Australia. Rightly or wrongly every clothing optional beach here is now considered a "gay" beach.

However I don't think its widely recognised that the decline of the naturist lifestyle is mainly due to the invention of modern swimwear. When the naturist movement took off in popularity during the 1920's "swimwear" as it existed then wasn't really worthy of the name. Its no wonder a lot of people thought going naked the best option.

The invention of nylon in the 1950's and especially nylon elastaine in the 1970's changed everything. When people had access to minimal, form fitting garments, that didn't slow you down in the water and dried quickly afterwards the popularity of nude bathing declined.

I tried the nude bathing thing a few times in my twenties but quickly went back to briefs because I found you got much the same feeling of freedom without the social awkwardness of putting your genitals on display. The tanlines and swimwear fashions available were also more appealing to me and many other people.
The people still attending naturist beaches were as you said older couples and people for whom going naked had a stronger sexual element. Basically nudity had become sexualised again.

What frustrates me with todays situation is while women have retained the enjoyment of wearing minimal clothing in an outdoor recreational setting (a sort of "nudist lite") our modern society considers men wearing similar garments to be sexualised like nudity.

I'm not sure how this can be changed. I think part of the problem is while about 80% of women enjoy doing the "nudist lite" thing only about 20% of men would be interested. As a minority they are simply intimidated into conformity.

The only hope I have for positive change is this movement towards "gender fluidity" that's taken off in recent years. Maybe it will be recognised that men have the same legitimate desire to display their bodies as women do.
Until that happens the "good old days" won't return.

Great article. Personally I'd quite happily go nude on a beach, pool or sauna. For me there's a freedom from prejudice or criticism in being nude as everyone is the same; no clothes. With swimwear people tend to dress in a way which they allow themselves to display to the limit of what they dare or are comfortable with and then tends to lead to accusations of exhibitionism or questions over sexuality in those who are comfortable in wearing the very least. I get this all the time from my family and friends, not doubting my sexuality but labelling me in mocking way. My wife is one of my biggest critics, obviously as she's with me most of the time but she often wears the tiniest of thongs, g-string underwear and very skimpy bikinis on the beach!