Stonewall Riots and Pride Marches

[Torchwatch]

I saw the long documentary on the Stonewall Riots the other night. New York gays in the 1960's reacted to police harassment and turned on the unprepared police. The police were outnumbered and outmanoeuvred, they never expected the gays that had been passively beaten up and arrested for years to turn on them. It went on for nights

At the end of the riots, when the police had withdrawn the first Gay Pride March took place. It was an in your face event, a challenge to all the police and homophobes to try to stop them or stay at home.

We sometimes see objections to speedos being worn at Gay Pride marches, but those who dare to go on the marches are deliberately being as shocking and controversial as they can within the law and for them speedos are the answer. Speedo should be proud that their products are being used to stand up to the forces of homophobia and repression.

[PSDave]

you are just learning about the Stonewall Bar? There have been many movies and documentaries and books about the riots there years ago.
As far as wearing speedos in gay pride parades, I see it as an entirely different message. Unlike other minorities that through the years have learned that the best way to be accepted is fit in. When a gay man dances down the street in a speedo, tutu, in drag, skimpy see thru shorts - or whatever - the message I see is, "We are different and we don't fit in or want to, but we want you to give us all the privileges that you have - though our actions do anything they can to alienate us from the regular working and voting population." Do you really expect the Boy Scouts to welcome gay troop leaders when they see these actions? I know I wouldn't want my son going on a scouting trip with the guy that last Saturday was in a skimpy red bikini dancing in the street with a feather boa around his neck.
You see these actions as a defiant stand, while I see them as a way to confirm to the masses that gays don't fit in as a part of society - and don't really want to, but they demand they be treated as though they do fit in.
As the old adage goes; "Actions speak louder than words."

[California Dolphin]

Actually, those who aggressively promote the heterosexual "lifestyle" -IE- Playboy, Hustler, Penthouse, etc. are a lot worse than those who promote the Gay lifestyle.

Go to the "Straight" part of the sex district in any city and you'll see images of women clad in bikin's with accented breasts, nipples, pussies, etc.

However, self respectible women still wear bikins around the pool and don't consider themselves sluts or whores. In fact, in the Gay district here in San Francisco, there are a lot fewer images of men in sexually explicit poses than women in the straight district.

So why should men be singled out for wearing a speedo at the pool (or short shorts for running or any other causual activity?

[sebbie]

Straight men are generally very visually-oriented when it comes to sexual arousal, This means they get turned on by looking at scantily-lad or unclad female bodies. The straight porn industry caters to this.

Women generally to a much lesser degree are turned on by seeing images of scantily-clad or unclad men. Indeed, they expect their men to remain quite covered in public.

Gay men, being men, are still generally very visually-oriented, and hence the keen interest in scantily-clad or unclad men. Most women generally are uncomfortable with men appearing in public scantily-clad. This sets up the anger some women seem to have toward men who wear Speedos in public, and why gay men are never offended seeing other men doing the same.

All of this is covered in a lot more detail in my new paperback book on Amazon (link from my sebringsil.com web site). Obviously there are Chippendales type sites that cater to women with scantily-clad men, but there are far fewer male strip clubs than female strip clubs.

Sebbie

[kumu]

We must remember it was drag queens who started the attack (the fight back) against the police at Stonewall. Good for them! It is said "Never cross a Queen. Never!" Stonewall was a case in point. Its ironic today to see police contingents marching in gay pride parades, and being welcomed. The times they are a changin'.

Males are pretty much visually oriented, whether gay or straight. A difference I see between straight & gay males is that gay males tend to take better care of their bodies. Much less likely to develop beer guts, much more likely to exercise and eat healthily. Also unfortunately a bit more likely to have alcohol or drug problems. But I always figured, considering the stress especially from life in a closet, its amazing we turn out as sane as we do. I am very glad to see young gays, men and women, boys and girls, comfortable with themselves these days.

A few years ago my beloved played in the local gay basketball league. The league has female as well as male players. At one time two female players asked who Anita Bryant was. Interesting. While its very satisfying that Anita Bryant has faded to insignificance, its still as important that people remember her campaign of bigotry as it is that they remember Stonewall. One of my most cherished mementos was a scandal sheet with Bryant's ex husband proclaiming life with her was hell on earth.

[Lap Counter]

Women generally to a much lesser degree are turned on by seeing images of scantily-clad or unclad men. Indeed, they expect their men to remain quite covered in public.

Sebbie

Well stated, Sebbie.
It seems to me that women post most of the anti-Speedo "eeww" comments in polls/forums/tweets, etc.

[Lap Counter]

Back in 1992, Colorado put homosexuality up for a popular vote.

(from Wikipedia) "In 1992, an amendment to the Colorado state constitution (Amendment 2) that would have prevented any city, town, or county in the state from taking any legislative, executive, or judicial action to recognize gay and lesbian individuals as a protected class was passed by Colorado voters in a referendum."

TV ads showed the excesses of San Francisco's Gay Pride Parade with the voiceover "Is this what you want for Colorado?"

It would have been just as valid to use pictures from any straight Halloween costume party as an argument against tax increases, but it seemed to convince the farmers and sheep herders (and we've all heard about those sheep herders).

[California Dolphin]

From my heterosexual experiences in my high school days in the early 70's, all the girls really liked the look of athletic guys in short shorts or tradtional swim trunks. The usual erotic talk from girls was something to the effect of "You look so sexy in your PE uniform or your swim suit".

Back in those days, guys wearing "boardie shorts" were a nonexistant phenomenon and they would be viewed as "Dorky". I guess the stigma and negative response speedos get today is from indoctrination from various puritanistic (and usually homophobic) groups.

However, as I've posted on several occassions, many guys are rejecting "Half Pants" and the shorter look is definitely making a comeback.

[louis]

Well stated, Sebbie.
It seems to me that women post most of the anti-Speedo "eeww" comments in polls/forums/tweets, etc.
Of course, havent you ever heard of Mrs Grundy she is the official speedo hater on this board, all we spd. lover knows Mrs Grundy URK, ^%$&^%$^,

[Lap Counter]

From my heterosexual experiences in my high school days in the early 70's, all the girls really liked the look of athletic guys in short shorts or tradtional swim trunks. The usual erotic talk from girls was something to the effect of "You look so sexy in your PE uniform or your swim suit".

Several girls on my summer swim team seemed to spend more time flirting with the guys trying to get their Speedos to tentpole out than they did swimming laps. It worked - nylon Speedos couldn't contain a teen erection.

After practice, it was customary for the swim team guys to just wear their Speedos all day at the country club pool rather than cover them up. Speedos were considered a bit bold, but not inappropriate in those days.

[PSDave]

One major difference between men and women is that women can look at another women in a bikini or topless and not really care. When a str8 man sees a man in a a speedo, thong etc, he is, for some reason, repulsed. I am sure we can go on endlessly why, but the fact remains, women accept other women in skimpy clothes (probably because it gives the something to talk about behind their backs) but men are not comfortable with other men that are in skimpy attire. Unfortunately, with gays so open in wearing skimpy speedos in public, it has put a stigma on speedos that anyone wearing them must be gay. When movies and TV generally use a speedo as a part of a gay characters wardrobe and with gay pride and its legions of speedo wearing marchers, it is easy to see how the generalization can be made. With str8 men not really comfortable around guys in speedos they, of course, won't find them appealing as part of their regular swim attire.

[kumu]

I think many guys have gay impulses they are not comfortable with. Go to a baseball game or football game and watch the guys after they have had a few beers, its real gay, hands and arms all over each other. With the impulse right there seeing attractive guys in speedos or otherwise can make a lot of guys uncomfortable. A taboo is as strong as it needs to be. If the natural drive for male male contact weren't as strong as it is there wouldn't be any need for such strong taboos against it. Maybe the strongest taboo of all. So when a straight guy sees a guy he is attracted to in a skimpy revealing little suit or otherwise, it can be very disturbing, uncomfortable, for him. A guy realizing he is turned on by another guy can shatter his image of himself.

[CalifFitnessSwimmer]

As far as wearing speedos in gay pride parades, I see it as an entirely different message. Unlike other minorities that through the years have learned that the best way to be accepted is fit in. When a gay man dances down the street in a speedo, tutu, in drag, skimpy see thru shorts - or whatever - the message I see is, "We are different and we don't fit in or want to, but we want you to give us all the privileges that you have - though our actions do anything they can to alienate us from the regular working and voting population.

Every year the Stanford mens swim team runs around the campus in speedos, jump in the fountains, pose in speedos in front of monuments, takes a quick dash through the campus bookstore.

Is what those guys do any less offensive, or maybe they have a right to express their "freedom" more than men in a gay parade? What are the Boston Red Speedo run every christmas.

link to stanford mens speedo run

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5daJZiZsg3c

[California Dolphin]

I think many guys have gay impulses they are not comfortable with. Go to a baseball game or football game and watch the guys after they have had a few beers, its real gay, hands and arms all over each other. With the impulse right there seeing attractive guys in speedos or otherwise can make a lot of guys uncomfortable. A taboo is as strong as it needs to be. If the natural drive for male male contact weren't as strong as it is there wouldn't be any need for such strong taboos against it. Maybe the strongest taboo of all. So when a straight guy sees a guy he is attracted to in a skimpy revealing little suit or otherwise, it can be very disturbing, uncomfortable, for him. A guy realizing he is turned on by another guy can shatter his image of himself.

Now that you mentioned it, I know the owners of one of the bathhouses here in the S.F. area and he seems to think that a lot of the guys who patronize the club are actually straight men who are looking for gay sex "On the downlow".

The evidence for his theory is that when guys check in at the front window and open their wallets, the clerk often sees photos of what appear to be their girl friends -and in many cases- photos of their wife and children!!!

Guys who are uncertain of their sexuality are petrified by the thought of anyone having public knowledge of their urges so they chose to remain in the closet and sneak out to bathhouses instead of being "open and out".

[kumu]

Reminds me of a total classic. There was a guy who claimed Jesus had 'cured' him of his homosexuality. But about once a month he'd go to a gay bath house just to remind himself of how horrible homosexuality was.

Then there was the San Diego preacher who preached against being gay. A friend said he saw the guy regularly at a bath house. When the preacher passed away of AIDS his obit stated he caught the disease during a transfusion. Even in death, a life based on lies. Such a strong taboo!