The reason Speedos are stigmatised

[Bede735]

I've noticed an absence of girls wearing bikinis at my local pool for several weeks now. My theory is that bikinis aren't really for swimming - they're for posing in. If women want to swim they wear one-piece swimsuits.

So a place where bikinis are prevalent e.g. a beach, is a place to pose in. And that's where the problem lies. If a man wears a pair of briefs at the beach he is posing, and that's just not the done thing. Far better to wear a pair of long shorts so as not to flaunt yourself.

Conversely, briefs aren't (or shouldn't be) a problem at a swimming pool because it is a place for the purpose of swimming.

In conclusion, I think clothes/sports shops should adopt a two tier strategy. One section should just be for swim briefs and headed FOR SWIMMING ONLY, while the other section selling (swim)shorts should be headed FOR POSING ONLY.

[Bede735]

Hotel resort pools however, are an in-between area. Simultaneously used for both swimming and posing in, which is why there are more bikini-clad women present.

A man can still swim in his speedos though, but on the strict understanding that shorts should be worn over his speedos for any time spent out of the pool. I realise I'm getting silly now, but maybe because the 'problem' actually is?

[Dooley67]

I believe you may be overthinking the whole issue Bede. If you are wearing a speedo or bikini at the beach, wear it in and out of the water; if at a resort pool, do the same. I don't think you need to put shorts on over the speedo when out of the water. Whenever I'm either at the beach or at a hotel resort pool, the only time I'll put on my shorts is if I'm going to buy something and need a pocket for my cash or credit card, or if I'm going into the hotel. I really don't think you need to change what you do just because you choose to wear a speedo. Do what you want, what makes you feel comfortable, all the while being respectful of others.

D67

[SwimTeamSpeedo]

I suspect girls don't wear bikinis swimming because of exactly what you are saying Bede... however, for guys I think it is simply that they don't like them. Maybe it is the tight fit, maybe it is that they hate that they show their equipment so clearly, maybe they just think people will think they are gay (not sure why that would be an issue..lol) Having said that, why do we care. I not more want to have someone tell me what swimsuit to wear than I would want to tell some guy who prefers board shorts that he should wear something else. Choice and variety is nice. I like the diversity of swimsuits. I am with D67, I will wear my swimsuits and be just fine doing so. And the rest of the guys are just fine with whatever they pick out.

[knikon]

Actually I find it is more that women don't speedos them for a plethora of reasons (most of them pretty petty or bad). Girls wear bikinis specifically for posing. Functional bikinis are far and few. Shorts too are for posing but women won't admit that. In fact many women love to see men in speedos (given they are fit) but they dont want the attention off of them or they think they are too feminine (bikiniesque). Look at much of mens current fashion (not just swim) and it is impractical for activity or work but women love it and it evokes the "look" of work more than the practicality of it. It is like the FAA Air traffic controller I knew who had to wear a business suit to work for a few weeks just because they wanted the department to look more professional while they renegotiated the contract with the fed. The additional discomfort did nothing to help the task of directing and managing regional air traffic.

Additionally the media is directed towards women for the most part and if they can poke fun at men or put them down for not conforming, they will.

[California Dolphin]

This is a case of an "Islamist" attitude creeping its way into America (and other countries) and men wearing shorts that expose their upper legs has become a taboo.

I often refer to today's men's down-to-the knee shorts and swim suits as a "Male Burqua" or "Leg Veils".

It's rather frightening how public opinion can be manipulated.

[Dooley67]

I agree with you CD only up to a point. The media is able to manipulate public opinion very effectively. However, if we buy into that with regard to the covering of our bodies when truly, deep down, we don't want to wear long boardshorts and we really want to wear that speedo, then we have only ourselves to blame if we don't exercise our real preference.

D67

[shaulis]

l agree the media have shamed men into wearing boardshorts/baggy shorts to be modest.

[Schoolspeedo]

At my local gym, I see a few mostly older guys-like me, I guess, wearing speedo styles and have seen a few women in bikinis though. In the Uk people are so conservative when it comes to showing of their bodies so seeing a woman in a bikini is rare at the pool. I was at a hotel spa in England a couple of years ago while on business and wore a very brief black bikini style made by Kiniki, Andre model. I was surprised that no-one really bothered with me or stared. Again on business, this time in Romania, I wore a string side navy bikini to the hotel pool and again no-one minded. I think the eastern europeans are still very open minded about all this as I've seen photos on flickr of russian and black sea beaches with guys in very brief speedo styles.

[Byron]

When it comes to the meeja and the fashion industry I am never sure who needs who - but feeding off each other to keep a non-subject under discussion for reasons of circulation and sales no doubt explains a lot (as it always does with profits to be made).
I do not read east European newspapers but I cannot envisage that any journalist
there would even think speedos and/or bikinis to be worth an article to engage their readers.

[Bede735]

Saw my first bikini wearer at the local pool in 2 months. Not that she did any swimming - just stood about at the shallow end.

I don't see how string sided bikinis could be suitable for swimming in. Wouldn't the string loosen? However, bikini bottoms with a sold side of 1 inch wide, would I imagine be perfect. Assuming the bra top was well secured....

[Byron]

I think the women volleyballers could advise her all about that....

[Bede735]

That's another thing. Why don't men's beach volleyball players perform in speedos? So much for sexual equality.

[Minimalist75]

I know someone who play competitive beach volleyball and he said that a very few of the men do play in speedos.

[sebbie]

This USED to be very popular for men for Beach Volleyball pickup games

[knikon]

Volleyball has become a posing sport. The bikinis the women wear are too small to be practical (but makes for fun watching :) )but the shorts the guys wear seem to be too large to be the optimal choice. Additionally part of this posing sport thing is that companies like Hurley & Nike sponsor these events and put stuff they want to sell on the athletes. The athletes want the sponsorship so they do it. Now if hurley made a bikini or "speedo" for men I'd be first in line to get it tho...

[Bede735]

We've said that men wear long shorts because they're uncomfortable with people looking at them.
The truth being, so am I. My ideal situation is turning at the swimming pool, finding there's hardly anyone there, and getting on with my swimming. I only really feel comfortable when in the pool.
The benefits of brief clothing to swim in though, easily outweigh everything else.

So unfortunately walking around a beach with Speedos on isn't something I'm likely to do.

[Dooley67]

Bede, you've proved the point that many have been making about speedos, jammers, boardshorts, etc. You do what makes you feel comfortable and if wearing speedos while walking around or on the beach when not swimming makes you uncomfortable, then don't do it and know that you don't owe anyone an explanation.

D67

[knikon]

Agreed with the above... Although I am 100% comfortable in a speedo out of the water. Women too are uncomfortable but they do it...

[California Dolphin]

As I've said previously, the trend is changing here in San Francisco and I'm seeing more and more guys (a lot of them in their 20s and 30s) jogging on the waterfront in short running shorts. I even saw a guy on a bike in real shorts - not jammers.

So I guess there are a lot of guys who are defying the stigma and going for the shorter look.

[Dooley67]

I'm also 100% comfortable in speedos out of the water knikon, maybe because I'm in my 60's and have done it since I was an early teenager? Comfort level is the operative phrase here and if guys who wear long board shorts worn far below the hips (which I find really hot) are comfortable that way, then that's what they should continue to do. I'd prefer that they wear briefs because they would look way hotter, but that's not up to me.

D67

[knikon]

For me in part is also the type of suit. When I wear a speedo (racing breif) I feel like I am A: Wearing something, B: Comfortable & C: Rather Modest. A genuine speedo generally hides the details of a bulge especially when worn down. Much less to see than the" Tent pitching" I did in my wet shorts. Also the fact that the shorts constantly slid down when wet and offered no support made (and still) makes me feel conscious and worried about an incident. Id perfer if they didnt wear boardies as much too but I will say that shorts can both look great and be comfortable on the right guy.

Now My andrew christian suits on the other hand do have a bit of tension when I wear them but unlike the speedo they are designed to put your package on full display in all of its glory...

[Dooley67]

I'm with you knikon. I don't like suits that emphasize my package. I like them to be low cut in front and low on my hips, but don't show off a bulge. The Nike suit that I just bought last week is exactly that, low cut but not showing a bulge.

D67

[California Dolphin]

I personally don't like the bulge either and when it comes to accentuating your "package", jammers are even worse than a speedo.

Even with the prudish fad of down-to-the-knee coverage, the modesty idea goes out the window.

[shaulis]

When I do wear a pair of jammers I've never had the "bulge" problem. I'd always be wishing I had worn my briefs because they gave me more leg movement.

[Bede735]

It's a bit difficult avoiding that, on account that swimming demands only one layer of clothing, but why should men be worried about something that's a part of their gender?
Women show off the shape of their breasts, and they certainly like to expose a lot of their posterior.

[Dooley67]

I understand what you're saying Bede, but there are certain suits that are deliberately made to emphasize and showcase your package. It's those kind that I wouldn't wear; jammers do the same and they just look damn uncomfortable to me.

D67

[Bede735]

Know what you mean. I was looking at my Aussiebum Classic again, and a bulge is quite noticeable, especially when wet, as the material is quite thin. Having said that, it's only noticeable close up and not from a distance, and the black colour helps a little.

[SwimTeamSpeedo]

I am with Shaulis. I bought two pair of jammers several years back to try out. I hated the stragle hold on my legs, and they really looked awful up front. Mostly, my equipment would end up hanging against one leg. I guess I will never understand why some folks get freaked out at a guy showing a bulge. Just like a ladies breasts... it is how we are made. Agree though that it is different if you buy a suit that is made to put you out there....

[Dooley67]

I just started doing some lap swimming this week at the local Y for the first time in my 67 years. For some reason, maybe the time of day (mid morning), I have been the only male amongst 3 or 4 women. Today, during my swim, a relatively young guy, maybe 22 or 23 started laps wearing a 2" black speedo (Slazenger, I think it read). He was clearly a strong swimmer by what I saw (I also saw that he was very hot!), but it was nice to see another guy in speedos - I was wearing my new red 1.5" Nike and felt a little stirring when I saw that young stud. Means maybe the young guys are going back to briefs.

D67

[Torchwatch]

Now that there are 2 of you swimming in briefs it becomes safe, watch for others to join you.
Someone, perhaps a woman, feigning disapproval will tell a friend, word will get around and more speedo guys will come out of the woodwork.

[Dooley67]

I never thought of that Torchwatch - you could be right. But I don't want too many guys swimming, though - I don't want to lose my slow lane. By the way, the Nike Scatter Brain brief is absolutely the best one I've ever worn for comfort, looks, maintaining shape, etc. It feels very sleek and even a bit sexy in the water. Even when I sized down to 30, there is still no obvious bulge. My second one arrived yesterday and I wore it today.

D67

[sunnfun]

I get people over their stigma of men wearing cute little Speedos by looking like this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/94117107@N06/14400062796/

And also this :eek:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/94117107@N06/sets/72157644646065850/

I think most people like looking at a decent looking body, man or woman, in a small swimsuit. I know I sure do! It's human nature, people.

[JamesSwim]

I've noticed an absence of girls wearing bikinis at my local pool for several weeks now. My theory is that bikinis aren't really for swimming - they're for posing in. If women want to swim they wear one-piece swimsuits.
.

I see girls at the lap pool wearing two piece bikinis meant for exercising. (The top is larger than the fashion bikinis.) It avoids having their boobs pop-out while diving or making flip turns. On the other hand, you see girl surfers wearing tiny bikinis, so go figure! They talk about how it's important to tie the straps well so it won't fall off when they wipe out. I think the fashion dictates what you wear.

But in general -- I rarely see girls wearing tiny bikinis at the lap pool. Guys give too much attention and the girls would rather just exercise. Even when wearing one-piece suits, lots of girls wrap towels around their waist like a skirt too, when walking back to the locker room.

[Schoolspeedo]

to be honest, I'm a bit of an exhibitionist and don't mind if my suit shows of my package. This became more obvious when I first started wearing 'speedos' in the mid 70s. My school swimsuit was made of a thick stretchy type material until I borrowed a speedo swims hit which was made of a light weight clingy fabric. I remember the first time wearing them, pulling them on over my package and feeling how flimsy the suit was. There was a certain amount of bounce also as I walked which was quite erotic. Then when wet, the bulge became more accentuated and felt like there was no fabric there. When dry and depending how you bulge was sitting it gave that 'tent' appearance which I found quite erotic. I recall being on a school trip to the west coast of Scotland and doing some sea kayaking wearing just the speedo and a life vest. With the suit being low cut and wet, my bulge, even as a teenager was quite prominent. My first encounter with seeing a bulging speedo was years earlier when on a hot summers day- yes we get them in scotland! I saw a guy at the local beach lying on his back with a brief red speedo and displaying quite a protruding tent, pointing skyward! No-on seemed to care! I think that displaying a bulge is part of the whole speedo wearing experience and perhaps why current thinking is against them. My wife is dead against anything speedo related though I stand firm (no pun intended!) and keep wearing them. Interestingly enough on a recent trip to Italy she packed my swimwear and on getting changed for the beach found that she hd brought a very, very brief light blue speedo for me to wear!! And being Italy, no-one bothered about my attire!

[Bede735]

But in general -- I rarely see girls wearing tiny bikinis at the lap pool. Guys give too much attention and the girls would rather just exercise. Even when wearing one-piece suits, lots of girls wrap towels around their waist like a skirt too, when walking back to the locker room.
So a guy has a choice of paying money to swim, and viewing girls in one-pieces or modest bikinis;

or strolling along the beach and seeing girls with breasts and bottoms exposed.

If I really wanted to gawp it's the beach every time!

[Turbofan]

Young guys are totally going back to briefs! My son stopped wearing speedos around 13 years old but started again when he was 16 or so.

I could tell he was testing the waters by wearing them for swimming in the lake and pool then putting on shorts for ganging out. Gradually he's worn the shorts less and less and now rocks the speeds all the time.

Even a couple of his friends have em and wear then with their girl friends around.

It's an encouraging sign.

[Byron]

They certainly are - but would it be indelicate to get the girl friends to say whether they are with or against the "swim shorts" preference of the great majority, as apparently uncovered in the travel company's survey?

[Dooley67]

This kind of discussion has occurred so many times and there are no right or wrong conclusions to be drawn because it is all based on opinion. I think the best thing to do is to wear what you like, and accept that the article that Byron posted for us to read is narrow minded and probably written by someone who has no idea what kind of suits are out there. Let the guys who wear boardies and jammers wear what they want, and maybe just put the discussion to bed. We'll never get agreement or consensus, and frankly who needs agreement. I'll continue to wear my low cut 1.5 brief wherever I want with no apology or justification and if someone doesn't like it, so be it.

D67

[Byron]

......but Turbofan did say young guys are totally going back to briefs.

I fear that still does not apply in so many locations and bits of such ignorant journalism as that which appeared do not help change the beach and pool
scene for the better (as we would wish ??). It is unfortunately often such "trendy" rubbish that is read and followed by the younger generation and it does after all sell on the newsstands.

[Dooley67]

Let's celebrate that the young people are going back to briefs and let's lead by example wherever we live, whether it is Maine, Vermont, California, or any other place.

D67

[knikon]

I am young lol. Im also not ripped but I'm not too fat... Can see My balls when I look down so...

[Byron]

Re. post#39 I am not sure how much this is written tongue-in-cheek but will he not collapse in shock if he sees a tanga, let alone a sunga?
http://whataboutsaopaulo.com/brazilian-men-on-the-beach-and-my-speedo-phobia/

[knikon]

Many never go back once they try it... It is that comfortable

[Dooley67]

My only response to Andrew's last question in the article is: "ya think???"

D67

[Torchwatch]

If he is "making frequent trips to the beach in an attempt to bronze my lily white body." then why did he " walked onto the beach wearing a white vest and pair of knee length board shorts"
It doesn't make sense, if you want a tan you should remove excess clothing, and if everyone else has done the same , then why worry.

[Bede735]

He says that some pools in the UK have banned Speedos? Can't say I've heard of any.

[Dooley67]

I just came back from my local Y where I did my laps. I forgot that today was member appreciation day. The pool was open to families and there were several families already there at 10:00 AM. I was able to swim in the lane near the side of the pool and I was wearing my new Turbo Ipanema. Not a single look or word - families just continued to swim and play in the water. Maine is a very progressive state and I believe that people just let others go about their business without comment. I suspect that Turbofan and Dorcas from Vermont and STS from Maine would agree that New Englanders are pretty low key when it comes to subjects like swimsuits.

D67

[Turbofan]

I'm Canadian, from Toronto.
I don't think we're as speedo phobic as you yanks.

[Torchwatch]

Alton Towers a permanent fun fair and resort banned speedos from their pool, I believe they were getting guys showing up in micro bikinis and thongs. Banning classic racing styles as well seems a bit extreme, but it was a woman in charge.

[Dooley67]

Sorry Turbofan, when you first joined the forum I thought Byron had made reference to Dorcas3 also being from Vermont so I assumed you were. I agree with what you wrote, yanks are more conservative about wearing a speedo, but here in Maine, no one seems to care if people do.

D67

[SwimTeamSpeedo]

I agree D67. It's never been an issue. I even wore a square cut Funky Trunk to a local ice cream stand near the lake and not one person batted an eye.

[50 Free]

the ladies at the club talk about my swimsuits and seem to approve of what they see. I know this because an aerobics instructor works part time with my wife and as typical females they talk a lot... they love seeing toned, athletic bods but prefer otherwise to wear larger swimwear.
I have no idea what guys think of it, I'll estimate about one in twenty wear briefs, another one in twenty wear jammers, the rest are in anything else especially board shorts. But the latter are not actual swimmers by any stretch of the imagination. I do often get into discussions about physical fitness and nutrition which can lead to compliments about my 55 year old bod so I surmise that I am noticed as I notice others.
From what I've learned at this site I presume gay guys want to see all men in a speedo, not being critical of the body shape wearing it. If there were any at our pool wouldn't I be likely to get a comment or glances from them? I don't know, but I wouldn't mind.
I would never wear anything too skimpy there, and it isn't really totally public, it's a members only health club. I have never seen any rules about swimwear.
I agree with those who say, "Wear what you want and don't worry about it" but will add "if you fear people will not like what they see, maybe there's a reason for it, but that is their problem!"

[swimtimx]

So a place where bikinis are prevalent e.g. a beach, is a place to pose in. And that's where the problem lies. If a man wears a pair of briefs at the beach he is posing, and that's just not the done thing. Far better to wear a pair of long shorts so as not to flaunt yourself.


So girls can pose at a beach and guys can't? Why not?

--Tim

[Torchwatch]

Posing requires affectation, placing the body to best advantage for the spectator. A man can wear speedos, bikini briefs and even swim thongs without posing. One should act indifferently to any viewers, get on with what you are doing and ignore the looks of those around you. Sunbathe or run on the beach, swim in the sea going out past those that paddle in the shallows but do it for yourself.
Modesty is not in what you wear but in how you wear it. The muscly but fat guy in his board shorts that always seems to be in the way making other's step aside as he walks by kicking sand about is posing, showing how tough he is. The group of younger guys in speedos kicking a ball about are doing it for their own pleasure, of course people are watching but they don't care!

[Dooley67]

Hey Torchwatch, I agree with you completely. You summed the whole issue up beautifully.

D67

[SwimTeamSpeedo]

I agree with Torchwatch that one should do what they want and wear what they like. I may be the minority, but I really don't buy all the stigma stuff. A Speedo is a perfectly acceptable swim suit. The guy in boardies might not choose to weat a speedo, so whay. I likewise will pass on the boardies. I respecy his right to choose, and find people are fine with my choice.

[Dooley67]

I think that you're right about the stigma thing, STS. Maybe our perceptions are what they are because here in Maine people don't bother each other and don't make a big deal out of things like what kind of swimsuit one is wearing.

But, beyond Maine, I've worn speedos of various sizes in many places in the US, Bermuda, the Caribbean, and Europe and have never felt in any way that I should be wearing something else because of any stigma associated with speedos.

[Bede735]

Speedo wearers are a bit like Goths. A type of dress/lifestyle different from the norm. With Goths some people ridicule them or are aggressive to them, but in general are fine with it. Just like Speedos.

[Byron]

Do Hell's Angels fit in there too?

[California Dolphin]

Speedo wearers are a bit like Goths. A type of dress/lifestyle different from the norm. With Goths some people ridicule them or are aggressive to them, but in general are fine with it. Just like Speedos.
The "Norm" for dress is not a law of physics - it's what ever people decide to go along with or they are too chicken to oppose. That's what's wrong with society today.

Most people are just a bunch of sheep and rather not get involved in anything that requires opposition to the so called "norm".

[Byron]

This guy norm seems to have a lot of influence in the dos and don'ts of what we humans have come to wear on various occasions in our evolving societies. I think he must surely have had a hand in developing the speedo out of one of those magnificent male codpieces from the couturiers of the past.:)

[Turbofan]

I think spedos were more acceptable when gay rights weren't as prevalent. After it was acceptable for men to be out, straight men had to identify themselves as straight and wearing tight revealing swimsuits was not a good way to do that.

I think baggy suits and poorly dressed men was a backlash against the gay revolution. Its turning the tide back though.

[50 Free]

we heterosexual swimmers get a good laugh at the notion that speedo wearers are gay. It shows how stupid and wrong some people are.

[shaulis]

I somewhat agree with Turbofan. Some straight guys were put off wearing briefs fearing to be thought as gay. I hope the tide is turning on board shorts though.

[Byron]

Yes - "bunch of sheep" and "stupid and wrong" both apply . The origins of stereotypical labelling have been much debated in past threads here but my finger still points to the antics in gay pride parades, which seem to leave some straight guys desperate (in their lack of self-confidence*) to demonstrate to their womenfolk and others , in one way or another , "no,no,no - I really could not be one of THEM!"
(which of course in one sense is true)

*the amusing thing being that gays in some cases can now be seen to be more macho than str8s

[Dooley67]

When gay rights became more prevalent and through no help from the flamboyant guys in the parades, there was an overall trend away from brief suits. But, also of consideration is that the fashion industry dictates what will be popular in any given season. Board shorts worn low on the hips became the style because that was what was promoted by the industry which seized the opportunity to change the styles because of the backlash. Look at ads in print media and online companies now and you see shorter boardies, briefs, and "trunks" which are nothing more than the old boxer suits.

D67

[Bede735]

I always thought with the gay issue it was the other way round, in that straight men wouldn't want to wear very little it case it attracted gays.

[Dooley67]

I don't know about that Bede. I've never heard that as a reason straight men don't wear briefs. I always thought straight guys wouldn't wear speedos because they feared others would make the wrong assumption that they were gay.

D67

[Byron]

Attracted as in a passing glance or by prompting a more in-your-face and embarrassing approach?
(gays are intelligent enough to exercise discretion and not always make utterly superficial choices - though camp chatter will inevitably reinforce that stereotypical image unfortunately).

I am with CD and Dooley on this - the fashion industry and the sheep have always maintained a good working partnership.

[Bede735]

And on that issue, how would you know if anyone was thinking you were gay? Unless they said you were, but why would their opinion matter to you?

[50 Free]

Exactly. And as far as "attracting", well so what, I don't mind, really, all people are welcome to look at me and speak to me. Check out a Facebook page called I'm Straight And I Wear Speedos. It's kind of fun

[California Dolphin]

For the idea that speedos are "gay fetish wear" and STR8 men don't want to be mislabeled as gay because they wear them, here's another viewpoint.

The gay movement has seized on about anything that appears erotic and sexy. So why not avoid wearing jeans, t shirts, and sneakers?

Accordingly men's clothing can be made just plain bland, sterile, and devoid of anything related to the male physique.

[SwimTeamSpeedo]

First, Speedo is a brand and not a style, much like Kleenex is a brand and not a generic name for tissue. I do think a big segment of society sees a guy on a beach in a brief or less cut swimsuit and they leap to gay. I bet most posters on this board make the same leap. It is easy to understand, go to any beach with a gay section and suddenly you start to see swimwear that is smaller and tighter. Nothing wrong with that, but lets be realistic, outside of swimming sport use, the outward wearing of small cut suits is far more common in gay arenas. Heck, some gay guys choose not to wear them out of a desire not to look gay. I do not like broad generalizations and do not agee with it.

I think the move back to shorter cuts will help lift some of the association. However, I do not see the day where brief cut swimwear is the majority, except at the local team pool.

[sebbie]

New clothing styles of all types often are first adopted by gays, but then frequently are gradually assimilated into the straight community as the particular fashion becomes more widely worn. Remember the old "International Male" catalogs, and the "undergear" catalogs. Gay guys frequently tend to be more body conscious than their straight counterparts, and tend to favor clothing styles that show a fit-and-trim body. For some unknown reason, most straight guys are less interested in this.

The recent resurgence in popularity of skinny jeans for all guys is an interesting illustration. The last time these were that popular with guys was when I was in high school in the 1960s. Then we never thought of the design with respect to sexual orientation and we wore them simply because we thought we looked good wearing them. Note however, that the boy bands seeking attention from screaming teen girls almost always are wearing really skinny jeans.

The Sears store in western ND (Minot) had maybe 8 or 10 real Speedo briefs hanging on the rack when I was ther in late June. Its been maybe 20 years since I had last seen Speedos on display in any department store in the upper MIdwest. Not sure what is going on except that the entire area is experiencing a lot of in-migration from states such as Texas, recently.

Sebbie

[Dooley67]

OK guys, I need some clarification here. STS rightfully said that Speedo is a brand, not a type of swimsuit. I will often refer to a brief suit as a speedo or as a bikini. So, since Speedo is a brand, how do we differentiate between a "speedo type" suit and a bikini? Is it the size of the side seam or whether the suit creates the "v" shape or low cut straight line that Turbofan talked about?

D67

[Torchwatch]

The more I clarify the more you will become confused.

Speedo is a brand, speedo is a variation on the basic Speedo racing brief design by other manufacturers.

The basic Speedo racing brief is a smooth front bikini, the width at the sides is variable as are colour and fabric.

A square cut swim suit has legs while a bikini has leg holes.

The words brief and bikini mean the same thing, but a bikini tends to be briefer than a brief.

The limit to the side width of a brief/bikini is the sum of the width of the waist elastic and the leg elastic.

A full cut covers your bum, a Brazilian cut shows the sides of your bum and a thong shows your bum cheeks. The limit to the rear width of a thong/bikini/brief is the sum of the widths of the elastic used.

A low cut suit reveals the top of your ass crack, while a high cut suit could cover your navel.

A smooth front bikini (Speedo) uses a single piece of fabric for the front of the suit. It holds everything in and smooth's it over, hiding inconvenient details. A pouch adds the 3rd dimension to the front of a suit, everything moves forwards and greater details are apparent. A filled pouch suggests that you are well endowed while a massive under filled pouch is boasting.

A front lined suit avoids embarrassment should you "dribble" slightly between the locker room toilets and the pool. A front lined suit also helps smooth over everything making the swimmer more presentable in public and less liable to embarrassment. An unlined suit when wet will cling tightly and reveal the shape of everything underneath.

A thin white fabric becomes transparent when wet, a thick black fabric remains opaque. Other colours and fabric thicknesses create a spectrum of choices.

Decide where you will wear your bikini, and who will see it and how you want them to react. Choose something conservative and safe for the public pool where lifeguards will be protecting women and children. Have something more adventurous ready for the quiet beach, miles from town where you can express yourself more freely. Since you are allowed to own more than one swim suit experiment around the house and in your own shower (or even pool if you have one).

[Dooley67]

Torchwatch,

Thanks for taking the time to write such a thorough explanation. Actually, I am less confused after reading it. What I take from your explanation is that brief and bikini are the same but a bikini tends to be smaller than a brief and that what I referred to as a "speedo type" suit is really a brief that is somewhat larger than a bikini. And, when talking about a Speedo, we're talking about the brand and nothing more.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but a brief that has a side seam of maybe 1" or 1.5" and is low cut in the front below the hip bones would be called a bikini. A 2" might also be called a bikini if it were also low cut, but any side seam larger and a higher cut in front and back would be considered a brief.

D67

[Torchwatch]

In Alice in Wonderland Humpty Dumpty said that his words meant whatever he wanted them to. So it is with men's swimwear, all the manufacturers are using different words to mean the same things and the same words to use different things. There are differences in meaning between different designers and cultures within the English speaking world.

Although there was already a Bikini Atoll in the Pacific used for nuclear tests the swimwear bikini was introduced by French engineer Louis Réard and separately by fashion designer Jacques Heim in Paris in 1946.

British men's underwear has included briefs for many years and so swim briefs were just a variation.

You are therefore as right or wrong as you want to be.

[Dooley67]

I don't know if you've seen the movie Bang the Drum Slowly with Robert De Niro in one of his earliest films. A baseball themed movie, some of the players in the clubhouse play a game called Tegwar, a game without rules. The rules are made up by the players as they play. Rules can't be challenged by anyone so the game is what it morphs into. So maybe it's the same in the swimsuit world. You say potato, I say potahto; you say bikini, I say brief!

D67

[Torchwatch]

New clothing styles of all types often are first adopted by gays, but then frequently are gradually assimilated into the straight community as the particular fashion becomes more widely worn. Remember the old "International Male" catalogs, and the "undergear" catalogs. Gay guys frequently tend to be more body conscious than their straight counterparts, and tend to favor clothing styles that show a fit-and-trim body. For some unknown reason, most straight guys are less interested in this.


Sebbie


The Ancient Romans considered a young man whose tunic covered his knees to be effeminate. The modern 3/4 length shorts based on women's brothel creepers are rather camp, while shorts that just hide or just show the knees have a camp eunuch effect when worn by a plump clammy man.
Shorts worn well above the knees are manly, practical and sportive. Speedos are the right thing to wear in the water and are neither gay nor effete.

On the radio today was a talk by a man who had been called gay from the age of 6 because he did not like football or being beaten up and dumped in muddy puddles. At the age of 11 he discovered that gay men had sex with other gay men, he had never thought of doing this and still didn't intend trying it. As he had accepted his gay identity he felt a failure as he felt no gay lust. From an early age the str8 community seem rather confused at just what it is they are prejudiced about and are supposed to hate. So they go paddling in their effeminate brothel creeper 3/4 length shorts and complain that the swimmers in speedos look gay.

[Byron]

I enjoyed those posts and as tw* says the more it is explained the more it is likely to confuse - but Dooley has picked up the salient points.
I think we have to blame the staff at the knitting mills in Sydney in 1928 for kicking all this off - just as we have to blame Mr Hoover for a short name easy to remember for his vacuum cleaner home appliance (which even turned into a verb for the action of cleaning the carpets).

By my own rule of thumb a speedo style suit from Speedo is solely of that brand and a speedo from Adidas, a speedo from Turbo, a speedo from Arena, etc etc etc etc , account for the rest.
The difference between board shorts and speedos seems to be clear for most but it is the body-coverage between each and what is designed to be a loose/tight fit and more up or more down the thigh which causes all the confusion (not helped by journalists who don't know what they are talking about in fashion articles which crop up in trendy magazines - but I do agree with Mies Van De Rohe that less is often more).

*in the Roman reportage I still don't understand the context of "clammy" and for my generation brothel creepers were nothing to do with shorts, but the shoes of Teddy Boys.

[Bede735]

Isn't a bikini something only a woman wears, to differentiate it from the one-piece bathing suit?

Whereas for a man it's just a brief, as they don't wear a suit that covers the chest, like a woman's one piece suit.

[SwimTeamSpeedo]

Bede, I am sure that the technical definition of some types of swimsuits is bikini. Having been a competitive swimmer, we wore some pretty tight and narrow suits, but we always called them swimsuits or briefs or racers. I just don't think many guy swimmers would use the bikini word. I am still of that mind today. Even my most narrow of suits do not get the bikini title. Maybe just a hang up.....

[Byron]

Yes - the bikini word is not used by guy SWIMMERS as STS says - and briefs and racers have always been suitable terminology in my mind to know what I am talking about in the speedo context.
Bikini is only a two piece worn by women instead of a full torso suit?
Well, no - so many of the girls want to go topless these days that the breast section is discarded. In fact, as demonstrated in several posts on this forum, some guys will also want to purchase ONLY the FEMALE bikini bottoms for something brief to wear (Roxy etc. proving quite desirable).

All very confusing but there was of course a time when the one-piece woollen suit with chest coverage was the 'appropriate' attire for MEN when bathing (see vintage pics of lifeguards for one thing). After that the coming of the Speedo speedo must have been a very avant garde way to display the male physique (even if a compromise was reached with waistlines up to the rib cage).

The Brazilians interestingly take a separate line here.
Tangas were once the minimum brief (the male 'bikini' which was prevalent on the beaches of Rio) but , almost overnight , tangas became only for the girls and the guys would wear instead the ubiquitous and larger sungas (and to translate that into non-Portuguese terminology we might say square cut speedos for those).

[Dooley67]

I guess we can debate what we call our swimsuits ad infinitum, so based on the historical perspectives presented by Torchwatch, Byron, and Sebbie, and the competitive racing background presented by STS, I suggest that each one of us call our suits what we want. So, whether my suit is low cut, high cut, with side seams of 1", 1.5", 2", or 2.5", from now on, I'll be wearing briefs.

D67

[50 Free]

I only call them speedos because that's the term used for brief racing suits by the general public. I mostly wear sporti or dolphin brand but who would understand "wear your dolphin to work day"?
The Speedo Corp.should be very happy to have such incredibly superior top of mind awareness of their brand. They make my favorite goggles. But their suits cost too much and rarely have patterns that appeal to me.

[SwimTeamSpeedo]

Brands can lose their right to exclusivity (in the US, a trademark) when a term becomes so common that it is considered "generic." A company like Speedo while flattered, has to be concerned that they actually lose the exclusive use of the term Speedo (regardless of caps) if it becomes the accepted term beyond just the branding. Kleenex went through this, which is why Kleenex ads in the 60's and 70's went out of their way to say "Kleenex brand facial tissues." Xerox had a similar issue back in the 70's and 80's when the term became almost general for a photocopy. In Byron's post above he actually refers to the "Speedo speedo." Interestingly, if you look at any of the swimwear brands, at least the major ones, they do not use the term speedo to refer to any style of their swimwear, and neither do any of the major swim retailers (Swimoutlet, Metro, etc.).

[Byron]

I used the diminutive (or genericised) purely in recognition of what half the world says (mostly inaccurately) as a description of the mid-body male attire which we discuss.
The absence of speedo in promotions by other swimwear manufacturers and/or retailers
is not difficult to explain as it is hardly good ad-copywriter psychology to introduce the well known name of a big competitor into the customer's mind
at that point.
One would not after all expect to see an advertisement from Electrolux which
says "come and see our splendid new range of hoovers".

Speedo International and Speedo ABV Holdings were not happy with Dave-go-to-hell-Evans a while back about the use of AussieSpeedoGuy on his website as the content , of questionable taste , under such a title was considered damaging to their trade-marked worldwide image.
The Australian Federal Court ruled in favour of the Speedo action in 2010 and DE subsequently removed the word
from the domain name. He is however still free to call himself AussieSpeedoGuy. Whether it was worth all the trouble of launching expensive litigation to achieve this is for separate debate - but, for all I know, it may have been a decision by Pentland to make an example of him to other similar website operators after he had apparently been uncooperative.

Maybe we should ask the older generation Aussies to bring us back to the nice old neutral word cozzie to relieve the agony of so much soul-searching ?:)

[shaulis]

Speedo International did not want to go the way of Jello Inc. When Kraft foods bought the Jello Inc they thought got exclusive rights to the word jello too and sued many companies over it up to the US Supreme Court and Kraft lost because jello became part of our lexicon.Back in the late 70's early 80's when you heard the word speedo you knew what it was. When a manufacturer referred to their swimsuit as a speedo and people bought them that's when they trademarked the word so other manufacturers can't use the word speedo in their description of their swimwear.

[Torchwatch]

I did warn you that this would become confusing, now it is mired in legal red tape.

[tawniessam]

This reminds me of my days (long ago) working at the newspaper. We reporters would try our best to get brand names through the copy editors without capitalization: frisbee, dumpster, kleenex, speedo.... Any one of them in print without the capital letter would earn you a friendly letter from the trademark holder's attorney reminding you that the word is a proper noun. They knew they couldn't do anything about it. So the letters were always "friendly" reminders. Unfortunately, the copy editors rarely missed these attempts.

[Bede735]

Better change the title -'the reason briefs are stigmatised'!

[Byron]

:) Linking brief to attorney becomes most appropriate here (neither is trade-marked I hope!)

No doubt a mire of legal red tape has occupied some space on the speedo stigma thread but I for one would like to thank members for their recent enlightening posts.

PS: Brothel-creepers are shorts or shoes??

[California Dolphin]

I seriously doubt that trademarked names would be of concern when used on a casual discussion board such as this one.

Furthermore, taking formal legal action might actually back fire since Speedo probably wouldn't to get public attention by complaining that an "adult site" is promoting their product as an object for erotic and sexual gratification (even through anyone with even poor eyesight knows Speedos are in fact erotic and exciting).

[knikon]

Regardless, the term speedo has surpassed the brand, Like photoshopping, kleenex, coke(in some areas)... As hinted at earlier mush of the stigma is the public assumption that if one goes out of his way to wear a speedo he must be posing or trying to show off and force his body to be more visible and in this society men are supposed to be reserved and not stand out.

Look at other areas of common mainstream male fashion. Most of it is business and work attire. Sure I love my beat up Levi's but a single pair weighs about 20times as much as a womans sundress. It is still workwear. Swimsuits fall into the category of fashion that doesn't have a casual work option (work is a wetsuit) so they design suits to appear like a combination of work and play with pockets, zippers, straps & bold patterns. Additionally images of women in bikinis are so prevalent in today's society that people just assume that is a garment that represents feminimity and thus shouldn't be worn by a man. While womens bikinis are often feminine in nature the solid plain brief/bikini style of suit is androgynous and historically has been worn by men for much longer in current society. Even in ancient rome the subligaria had a similar male counterpart...

[Byron]

(female garment subligaria) (not trademarked I believe)
https://p.gr-assets.com/540x540/fit/hostedimages/1384633339/6921490.jpg
Yes indeed (pic for males from movie set).
Novice combatants would start with a white cloth but later be awarded red (for blood) if having proved themselves and pleased the crowd in the arena.

[knikon]

The male counterpart was known as the Perizoma and yes they lookred exactly like the above picture...

[Bede735]

At my local pool you are as likely to find a woman wearing a bikini as a man wearing briefs ie. not often. Yet bikinis are available everywhere to buy - even in supermarkets.

Of course with swimming costumes are only noticed when entering and leaving the pool, which is a problem for the bikini wearer who wants to be noticed at all times.

[Byron]

:eek: saw THREE together at mine - nearly fainted but sighting never repeated.
Each with two triangles and a bandage, make-up and painted nails etc. and
no swimcap would be big enough to contain the hair.
All posing of course - sitting on pool ledge and at most getting wet to the ankles.

[Byron]

I quote here exact descriptions from same supplier on the
same webpage:

This is a mens Hologram sheer swimwear bikini:
http://cdn.hotfrog.com/companies/Buffedbod-Swim-and-Bodywear/images/Buffedbod-Swim-and-Bodywear_84530_image.JPG
Crazy to describe as bikini - I would say square cut speedo


This is a Mens Print Insert Bikini Swimwear:
http://cdn.hotfrog.com/companies/Buffedbod-Swim-and-Bodywear/images/Buffedbod-Swim-and-Bodywear_84536_image.JPG
I would say brief speedo but this is the limit of brevity for
me to use the term

[Byron]

The difficulties rarely understood:
http://www.theage.com.au/comment/who-cares-if-ian-thorpe-is-gay-15yearold-closeted-me-thats-who-20140713-zt63t.html

To answer post#71 I feel this is well worth reading and
sports commentators and invited "pundits" would be first in my firing line (for pundit read guy with loud mouth pushed in to fill broadcast time but so inarticulate that the mute button is best pressed for the duration).

Just two celebrity examples: Ian Thorpe saying no in his autobiography of two years ago but yes in
his tv interview yesterday. Tom Daley saying bi on YouTube this year but now seems happy to say fully gay.

[Dooley67]

I have been swimming at my local Y for about 6 weeks just about every day. Today while I was doing my laps there were 5 people in the pool, all men. Of the 5 of us, 2 were wearing briefs; me - a 1.5" Nike water polo brief, the other guy about my age was wearing what looked like a 3" Speedo; 2 were wearing square cuts, and one was wearing a boxer style trunk. This is the first time that briefs and square cuts were the predominant style. So things might be changing in the direction we have been talking about.

Earlier in the week, in the locker room I was changing into one of my Turbo suits after working out, having a conversation with a couple of guys I've talked with before. No dirty looks, no raised eyebrows; I was just a guy getting ready to swim. The same thing happened in the sauna, just ordinary conversation with no grimaces or negative comments. Both STS and I have said that people in Maine are very accepting and non judgmental which probably accounts for getting no negative reactions, but the kind of suits worn today in the pool is very promising. I hope it continues.

D67

[Byron]

:mad: For those who can bear to read this crap from ChristWire the speedo comes up in item13:
http://www.ryanseacrest.com/2010/08/24/15-signs-your-husband-may-be-gay

[50 Free]

Relax, Byron, Christwire is a spoof, a satire like the Onion or the Duffel Blog. You're supposed to laugh at it.

[knikon]

Asinine article... I know fab gay guys, goth gay guys, and hardcore welder gay guys... Some straight guys are effimate and some gay guys are hardcore masculine.

In other news (I heard this on KFI the #1 Talk/News radio in the LA area) Speedos are a bit more acceptable. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/2014-expedia-flip-flop-report-examines-beach-behavior-worldwide-germany-and-austrian-beachgoers-outstrip-world-in-beach-nudity-2014-07-14

[Bede735]

Phew! I only wear a Speedo at the pool. I must be straight!

[SwimTeamSpeedo]

I wear my "speedo" (sic) at the beach, lake and pool, and when I do I am bare-chested (but aren't most guys). I have a gym membership mostly to use the pool, not much else. I don't use the shower or sauna to get picked up, and when I get home from the gym I am still interested in sex. Damn, I must be a confused mess...

[Dooley67]

Well, I only meet 6 of the criteria in the article which undoubtedly and with complete statistical significance and with empirically verifiable data, explains why I'm mostly straight but "somewhat" gay. Now I know why I like my house to be neat and I like to look my best; I feel so relieved - I've been worried about that for so many years!

I hope nobody takes that article seriously.

D67

[shaulis]

Who says conservatives can't be funny. I thought the article was an attempt to be funny and it succeeded in doing just that.

Shaulis

[Byron]

OK :D :D :D
(the trouble with being taken in by this stuff is that it is clearly OTT but one only has to listen to the born-again guys to realise just how OTT they can be
in their condemnations of sinful behaviour)

(good to note the Expedia beach survey material which, if true, shows a surprising but pleasing
74% speedo approval)

[Byron]

Re. post#107, do I see perhaps just one speedo in action here in the hot weather?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/picture/2014/jul/17/eyewitness-london-brockwell-lido

[Chris997]

Swim briefs aka "Speedos" stigmatised by main stream media by so called fashion idiots who actually don't have a clue, whats the bet that they never really get out and are the weirdo types that sit behind a screen most of their day sitting away at a desk, not to mention the tons of "freebies" they get from branded clothing companies made in low labour rate sweat shops.

The same can be said for research diet pills "Pioneered by scientist and endorsed by doctors" how do you pioneer something that cannot be proven and a doctor that endorses something, how does he/she have that ability to know that it will work for everyone, so, so called "Fashion guru's" where do you get off saying that the instyle is now and that a certain style is like so last week, what gives them the right and what gives them the authority to decide this.

I know I never gave them that right, but sadly the majority get off by buying fashion styles as its a sense of spending money for a new look, how sad.
And no I don't look like a scumbag as I do have a sense of dress code.
For example a nice white T shirt and a pair of jeans still looks awesome, buy hey you're not in if thats how you dress according to these know it all fashion guru's

The same goes for mass hysteria around movie/music stars, I'm still baffled how people go on about this or that in the entertainment industry, who gives a ****

Now I know a few will be annoyed by this but its the same for owning a Harley Davidson, when you buy one you buy a life style otherwise you're not in with the rest.

Why buy a life style, what's the point.. we all have our own individual right to self determination so use that to your own ability and stop chasing what's the now, lifes to short.

Fashion guru's, go get a real job

[Bede735]

I can't understand men having a problem swimming in them, as being immersed in water you're not particularly noticeable, which takes care of the modesty issue.

[50 Free]

I think it depends on how you define "swimming."
As far as I can tell, guys whp are in the pool doing laps as their daily fitness workout are perfectly comfortable being seen doing that in briefs.
Body builders hanging out at the beach wearing briefs aren't swimming, they are posing. They are comfortable, too, I assume.
To me, it boils down to being proud of my swimmer's physique and not being ashamed to share it with anyone who appreciates seeing it. Like the bodybuilder, I worked hard for it and like to show it, so in that sense I'm a poser, too.
If I thought I was disgusting or offending people I'd wonder why. Are they jealous? Intimidated? Repressed?

[Dooley67]

This debate is endless and will never come to a conclusion that everyone agrees with. I have only recently become a serious swimmer (2 months) and have changed the type of briefs I wear - the ones that are tighter, sturdier, low cut and hold my equipment in place. But I've been wearing speedos forever because I like how they feel and fit. I was not a poser and I'm sure there are lots of other speedo wearers who fall into the category that I was in. Speedos, when worn respectfully and in good taste (no thongs or sheer briefs) when around families and children are for anyone who wants to wear them. People shouldn't get hung up on what others think. Just be yourself and be comfortable in what you wear.

D67

[Byron]

I saw a newspaper pic of a female airhead recently captioned as "xxxxxxxx - best known in social circles as a celebrity for being a celebrity"
- that just about sums it up I think.

(she was falling out of a nightclub in the early hours at the time - as is the fashionable way to be seen )

[Bede735]

Re. post#107, do I see perhaps just one speedo in action here in the hot weather?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/picture/2014/jul/17/eyewitness-london-brockwell-lido

Looks like one of them is wearing a frogman suit!

[Byron]

... water temperature not up enough for some perhaps despite the description of a "cooling dip" (have to be careful in observing such a distance shot however - full body suits are available to be modest for Moslem girls wishing to swim)

[shaulis]

I agree with Dooley67. If you're comfortable in what you wear and it's tastefully worn it should be alright.

[SwimTeamSpeedo]

Shaulis and D67 are on point. Wear what you like. I have no gripes with the guys in boardies (I even think some look cute), or the swimmers in jammers. I no more want to tell them what to wear than I want them telling me. My choice is best for me, and I am fine with that. Stigma me all anyone wants... I really don't care.

[Byron]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/08/04/article-2714757-2039128B00000578-981_964x641.jpg
MailOnline captions this pic as "Holidaymakers turn Devon beach into a little bit of California as most of Britain basks in glorious weather".
:) Er, a bit OTT perhaps if all the wetsuits are anything to go by.

Anyway, must congratulate Brighton Pier for promoting a favourite speedo:
:cool: http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/08/03/1407078179803_Image_galleryImage_People_enjoy_the_ early_mo.JPG

[Torchwatch]

At least Brighton still have a pier, it is thought that the Eastbourne pier fire was arson.

[Byron]

Yes - is Brighton's other one still a rusting skeleton of twisted steel after all these years?
Has the big hole in Southend's middle section been filled in ?

(can't comment on Shanklin - that's all under the waves somewhere after the big storm)

[Mollyk]

I wear bikinis to tan in, relax in and for my guy.

I wear one piece for swim workouts and to avoid heavy sun.

[speedonutt]

The issue is bafflingly with straight men in shock at the suggestion.

Straight Guy Friends have no problem sitting around and making all kinds of "only among other guys" comments & Jokes.

Many also see being naked playing beer pong with their straight friends, panting & other public humiliating removal of all clothes.

But somehow Speedos are different. It makes no sense since bake games is fine.

Of course "shrinkage" or just tiny dicks seem likely culprit.

But nobody is looking at wet cold speedos and judging ... EXCEPT GAY MEN WHO DO IT ALL THE TIME, NONSTOP, but those in the "NEVER SPEEDO" WORLD have no idea and are too busy in an obvious mental disorder, drooling as they gaze and think ungodly thoughts about doing unnatural, unimaginable acts of sex, so devient that a group of gay men discussing it in private would start barfing & throwing up before the really nasty details of the sexual thoughts that are a constant can be uttered.

I think it's ignorance caused by blackouts imagining sex with women. But if they like prostitute level of sexual skin exposure on women, what's up with not wearing a speedo in hopes of getting them to notice the straight guys?